Antenna selection help

[jccho]

I'm about to purchase 1080 model of your antenna. I'm already getting many of the local stations
using my indoor rabit year antenna, and I want to get more stations that I'm not getting currently
with this indoor antenna. Will I need to mount the antenna on the top of the roof? I'm sure the
reception will be better there. However, I just wander how much of an improvement I will get
if I place it on a tree which is not as high as my roof. I realldy don't want to climb up to the roof.

Thanks.

[jccho]

Hi;

I live in Irvine CA (about 40 miles south of LA), and I currently get reasonable recepction on most of
the channels. Some stations (notabley ABC) does not come through at all. I would like to get some
help in selecting the outdoor antenna. I was thinking of using 1080 model. What do you suggest?

Thanks.

[winegard]

Good morning jccho -

I would recommend a HD7694P. The 1080 could possibly work for you and I understand the want of a smaller antenna, but depending on your exact location I think you would be stretching the mileage of the 1080. The HD7694P has a 50 mile range and should easily pull in all of the channels in your area.

As far as where to mount, we recommend getting it your antenna as high as possible with as few obstructions as possible. The 1080 has a better chance of working if you can get it up very high and have a clear line of sight. Bringing signal in through a leafy tree you can drop up to 50% of your signal strength.

[jimb]

Dear Winegard:
Now I'm really confused. You just told jccho that, for a location 40 miles from LA, jccho could use a HD7694P antenna. Now according to your specs, that antenna is only good for 30 miles VHF and 25 miles for UHF. Will it really work at 40 miles?

Furthermore, I ran my location through your OTA Antenna Selector and that told me, I'm 35 miles from Chicago, I needed a HD7697P antenna. According to your specs that is good out to 60 miles VHF and 50 miles UHF. Why do I need a 60 mile range antenna when I'm 35 miles out, but jccho can use a 30 mile antenna when he's 40 miles out?

I hope you can clear up this obvious discrepancy. Thank you.

Jim B

[winegard]

Good morning Jim B -

The HD7694P is rated for up to 50 miles. We recommend mounting any antenna as high as possible and with as few obstructions as possible. Putting an antenna in the attic, mounting low behind a hill, etc. will all reduce that mileage.

The Winegard antenna selector factors in the contours of the address you enter into antennaweb.org and is not soley based on mileage. While you are entering 35 miles into that selector you are also entering a Blue or Violet channel option which means the channel that you have selected to receive will not reach you with a 35 mile rated antenna due to low signal strength or the geographic issues in your exact location that you entered.

If you would like to private message me your full address we can take a look and give you a custom selection. It is possible the channels you are entering into the selector are throwing your final outcome off.

[winegard]

Jim B -

I sent your location to our technical services manager and an engineer for analysis. Here are the responses...

I believe the HD7694P is going to be too small and the HD7696P may be marginal at height of 10 feet. I suggest the HD7697P as a better option.

I agree with your antenna selection as the customer's location is just a few blocks west of the Fox River. At that location, the site elevation is very much below average terrain and models like antenna.org or the FCC prediction model may guide the customer to incorrectly buy an under-sized antenna so the customer is going to need all that he can get from the larger HD7697P.

[KNP 2516]

I'm about to purchase 1080 model of your antenna. I'm already getting many of the local stations
using my indoor rabit year antenna, and I want to get more stations that I'm not getting currently
with this indoor antenna. Will I need to mount the antenna on the top of the roof? I'm sure the
reception will be better there. However, I just wander how much of an improvement I will get
if I place it on a tree which is not as high as my roof. I really don't want to climb up to the roof.

Digital television is primarily in the UHF band. Analog television is broadcast in mainly VHF

UHF usually has a range of about 40 miles.

Electronics 101 teaches you that in UHF if the transmitter is 1000 feet above average terrain and your antenna was mounted on a tower 1000 feet above average terrain that you would be able to receive a good television signal.

UHF works much like a flashlight. It does not go through buildings, around corners or down into a hole.
You best reception is when you are at the same elevation or slightly higher than the transmitter antenna and have no obstructions between you and the transmitter.

Leaves in trees, migrating birds, bugs such as a horde of locusts, airplanes, mountains and tall buildings can all interfere with even local signals.

Now take this one step further, a tree is a conductor - much like a metal pipe. If you mount your antenna in a tree, the antenna will not have a clear view due to the leaves and your antenna can be at risk because a antenna sways in the wind - which is something you want to avoid if you want a good signal and want to avoid damage to your antenna. Also think about this - a tree is usually the tallest object in your neighborhood and when lightning strikes - it usually looks for the tallest object to strike.

If lightning ever struck your tree, it would follow down your cable into your house and into your television and do damage. The proper way to install a antenna is to mount it to the side of your house and properly ground it, or on the top of tower in your yard.

Chimney mounts sometimes fails to hold the antenna, - depending on which model you use and how much the antenna weighs. Tripod roof mount antenna mounts are not very strong because the only thing holding them to your roof is 3 screws. I don't know about you, but I don't want to poke any holes in my roof. Also - most Tri pod antenna mounts does not hold the antenna in one place very well and from time to time - you have to climb back up on the roof and re aim your antenna. Its not something that you would want to do in a rain storm or snow / ice.

For most antenna's to work properly, they should be 10 feet above your main roof. That helps to avoid electrical interference from your house and your neighbors houses and antenna's. A rotor is also a very good idea. Antenna's should not be mounted more than 4 feet above most antenna rotors - because it is hard on the motor - trying to hold such a heavy object so high in the air when the wind is blowing.

Depending on where you live, you might want to invest in a television rotor.

Just because you receive 4 stations with your rabbit ears antenna today doesn't mean that 4 channels is all that there is ever going to be. More towers are being built every day and more stations are going to come on line as the Digital Revolution comes to be after June 12, 2009.

You also have to remember that UHF does not travel as far as VHF and that line loss in the wire that you use plays a major role as to what signals you receive. The higher the frequency goes, the more loss your wire will have, and some signals that you now receive with rabbit ears and VHF might not come in with a good antenna and UHF. It's all going to be a crap shoot until the television stations gets their acts together and gets their new transmitters on line and shuts off and takes down their old transmitters.

[KNP 2516]

Dear Winegard:
Now I'm really confused. You just told jccho that, for a location 40 miles from LA, jccho could use a HD7694P antenna. Now according to your specs, that antenna is only good for 30 miles VHF and 25 miles for UHF. Will it really work at 40 miles?

Furthermore, I ran my location through your OTA Antenna Selector and that told me, I'm 35 miles from Chicago, I needed a HD7697P antenna. According to your specs that is good out to 60 miles VHF and 50 miles UHF. Why do I need a 60 mile range antenna when I'm 35 miles out, but jccho can use a 30 mile antenna when he's 40 miles out?

I hope you can clear up this obvious discrepancy. Thank you.

Jim B

Television reception depends on several things, Height of antenna above average terrain, height of the transmitter above average terrain, and the signal strength of the transmitter and the distance between your home and the transmitter and obstructions of 4 stories or more between you and the transmitter and also the frequency of the transmitter. Length of wire that runs between your home antenna and the loss rate of the wire you use. The size of the antenna helps to improve local stations. Plus if you live in a good area, a outdoor antenna will improve your signal strength and will compensate for loss due to distance, signal strength, and distance between transmitters.

Most cities has antenna farms where several stations will construct their transmitter antenna's. The problem lies when one transmitter is to the east and another is to the south and another is to the west.

The ability of the antenna to receive signals front to back and side to side - also determines how good of reception you will get without a rotor. A typical UHF / VHF antenna has a reception range that looks like a balloon that is squeezed in the center. It has a large frontal area where it can recieve all signals well. A small amount of reception in the back and some reception on the sides. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

What the Winegard rep is trying to tell you is that a larger antenna will improve your reception of stations that are not directly in front of your antenna and will also help you receive stations that are on the fringe of your reception area.

Sites such as Antennafool. Rabbitears.com and Winegard knowledge base is not a exact art. What it does is looks at the gereral coverage area maps for the local television stations and also looks at terrain maps and advises you as to which antenna works best in your area.

Remember that antenna manufacturers rates their antennas as to how well they perform in a general application in a local setting. They have to take into account, trees, buildings, hills, valleys and other obstructions that can interfere in your television reception. Nobody rates their UHF antenna for more than 60 miles because realistically most people will not receive a UHF signal for more than 60 miles.

Some people that lives on a very tall mountains - facing a distant television transmitter, and using a antenna pre amplifier can receive signals at distances more than 60 miles. Once television is converted to all digital broadcasting - DX - or long distance reception of television will be a thing of the past.

The Winegard manufacturer was not trying to rip you off by suggesting that you buy a larger antenna than what you thought that you needed. What he was doing was suggesting to you that you buy a better antenna that would compensate for loss - such as leaves on trees, rain and snow storms - which will have a effect on reception, local obstacles etc.. A new antenna will have its best reception when it is new.

Once rain, snow, UV rays from the sun damages your antenna you will experience some loss of signal and then you will be glad that you bought a better antenna than just one that was rated as barely good enough for your area.