Fringe antenna recommendation

[Tux52]

I would like a recommendation for long-range DTV reception on a second-story HDTV. I live in zip code 20120. With a set of rabbit ears (RadioShack 15-1868), I can receive the four DC majors (2 hi-band VHF, 2 UHF) with no problems. But...DC's CBS affiliate (WUSA, channel 9) sucks for a number of reasons (plus its signal is finicky), and I would rather watch Baltimore's CBS affilate - WJZ-TV, channel 13.

I could receive a pretty good analog signal from 3 of the 4 Baltimore majors, and 13 was definitely the best. It wasn't city-grade, but wasn't too snowy either. 13 is located 55 miles away from my house, but the geography is in my favour. The house is on top of a hill, higher than surrounding houses, and the only trees are located to the east (towards DC). Terrain between Baltimore and here is basically flat.

When scanning, 13's digital signal will get the TV to pause for a minute or so (you get the feeling it's almost there), but eventually the TV will continue scanning. I have had trouble receiving VHF majors in other cities with these rabbit ears. So will a better indoor antenna like the SS-3000 do the trick, or am I going to have to get up on my roof or in the attic?

[KNP 2516]

I would like a recommendation for long-range DTV reception on a second-story HDTV. I live in zip code 20120. With a set of rabbit ears (RadioShack 15-1868), I can receive the four DC majors (2 hi-band VHF, 2 UHF) with no problems. But...DC's CBS affiliate (WUSA, channel 9) sucks for a number of reasons (plus its signal is finicky), and I would rather watch Baltimore's CBS affilate - WJZ-TV, channel 13.

Rabbit ears antenna's are not always UHF capable, for proper reception, you need a UHF antenna. You have a channel 7, 8 , 9 - real channel. That means that you need a combo UHF / VHF antenna to receive those channels.

WJZ is digital channel 13, 28.2 Kw. Sorry but at a range of 55+ miles away, it is not in your viewing area.

It's just too far away and too low power.

I could receive a pretty good analog signal from 3 of the 4 Baltimore majors, and 13 was definitely the best. It wasn't city-grade, but wasn't too snowy either. 13 is located 55 miles away from my house, but the geography is in my favor. The house is on top of a hill, higher than surrounding houses, and the only trees are located to the east (towards DC). Terrain between Baltimore and here is basically flat.

In the analog days there were two effectively transmitters for the TV
station.
A transmitter for the video and a transmitter for the audio.
The video transmitter was Amplitude Modulation.
The audio was FM at a much lower power.

The reason that the video was a higher power is that AM is more susceptible
to noise requiring a stronger signal at the receive and a higher power
output of the video transmitter

Basically what that means is that the television signal was VHF 2 -13 and was very powerful.

VHF is ground following, it will go up on hill and down the next. It will go through buildings, trees etc.

Even the analog UHF was high power, even if you didn't have a good signal, you could still watch it with some snow and interference. Now it is all digital signals - just like your computer. 1's and 0's

Either you have a signal or you don't. There is nothing in between.

The signal is now transmitted with a low power VHF transmitter or high power UHF transmitter.

UHF requires more power to transmit a shorter distance than a VHF signal. UHF does not travel long distances due to the fact that UHF is line of sight transmission.

Any corruption of the signal, and you get pixelation, enough corruption and you have no signal at all.

If you shine a flashlight up in the sky, it will not shine down in a hole - valley. It will not go through tall buildings, up one hill and down the next. Like a beam of light, eventually the light travels out into space and you have no more signal.

The signal can at times bounce off the atmosphere and give you moments and even days of tropospheric reception. But is not a reliable source of reception.

Anything between you and the signal can block the signal. Trees, buildings more than 4 stories high, hills, airplanes, flocks of migrating birds, swarms of bugs. Clouds blocks signals as does low pressure systems in your area. Rain and fog can scatter your signal.

Normal range of line of sight is 40 miles or less.

Anything more than 48 miles and the best you can get is a 1 edge or 2 edge signal.

A 1 edge or 2 edge signal is a bounce of the signal and not the true signal.

Unfortunately, UHF digital television signals and low power VHF digital signals are not discriminative.

They do not care if you are poor, or if you are sick, or if you live in a apartment building or if you are old.

The only way to receive the signal is to put a outdoors antenna 10 feet above the roof and turn it with a antenna rotor. Use a small pre amplifier if you have long lengths of wire. Use Quad Shield RG 6 wire with crimp on connectors and keep your wire runs as short as possible. Keep your splitters to 2 way splitters only.

Just the loss in the wire and the loss in the splitter can be enough to loose a normally good signal.

When scanning, 13's digital signal will get the TV to pause for a minute or so (you get the feeling it's almost there), but eventually the TV will continue scanning. I have had trouble receiving VHF majors in other cities with these rabbit ears. So will a better indoor antenna like the SS-3000 do the trick, or am I going to have to get up on my roof or in the attic?

Forget about putting a antenna in the attic. UHF does not transmit through buildings, and a piece of flashing 6 inches wide can block a normally good signal. The building materials - wood and shingles do not block the signal much, although the moisture in the wood and the moisture under the shingles will all block the signals.

Even if it works today, 5 months from now when it is raining and snowing, you will loose the signal.

Not something you want to happen when you are trying to watch a football game.

As I have said before, indoor antenna's are not a good solution. Multipath issues - even just from people moving around in the room will cause problems with your signal.

Your best bet is to buy a Winegard 8200U antenna and use a pre amp such as a Winegard AP 8700.
It's best to only use a amplifier as close to the antenna as possible
with the highest gain in the area that you are interested in receiving
UHF / VHF, with the lowest possible noise.

The KEY is that you want a relative "good" level of input at your receiver
(TV) with the minimum noise.

Buy a good digital antenna rotor such as the RCA sold at most Lowes Home Improvement stores.

All cable has loss and the higher up that you go in frequency (VHF to UHF)
the more loss that the cable has.
If you start with a low level signal at the antenna and then butt it into
coax cable you are going to have less come out at the end than went into it
from the antenna. The amount of loss depends upon a number of factors,
cable type and cable length are the two most important. Cable is rated in
db loss per 100' at X MHz (frequency). RG-6 cable is the cable most used
in TV use. Like all things there is good RG6 and not so good. Belden
1829AC Coax - Series 6 has a loss of 4db/100 feet at 500 MHz (TV Channel 18)
Channel 32 is 580 MHz
Channel 52 is 700 MHz it would have a 5 db loss

At TV channel 2 the cable would have a loss of 1.4db. so at channel 18 you loose more than
1/2 the power in 100' of cable between the antenna and the TV.

20 dB = gain factor of 100

10 dB = gain factor of 10

3 dB = gain factor of 2 (actually 1.995)

0 dB = no gain or loss

-1 dB = a 20% loss of signal

-3 dB = a 50% loss of signal

-10 dB = a 90% loss of signal

[Tux52]

Not something you want to happen when you are trying to watch a football game.

Which is exactly what I wanted to do. A rooftop antenna isn't in the budget now, but thanks for the advice.

[winegard]

Much of what KNP 2516 says is correct. We would recommend getting up into at least a HD7696P for your location or larger to pick up the Baltimore station.

However, while KNP does continue to be 100% doom and gloom about putting an antenna indoors or in an attic, it does work. Yes, you lose a significant amount of your signal but their still signal there in most cases. Certain materials will cause a greater loss in signal, up to 90% if you have a metal roof or trying to acquire signal through duct work, etc.

All of your local stations seem to be within 20-25 miles. The SS-3000 should be able to pull in all of these stations, indoors, no problem in most circumstances. The Baltimore station is the issue.